Loyalty

[Getafixe]

I have noticed a very disturbing trend over the past several months and believe that it is seriously damaging our guild. LACK OF LOYALTY TO THE GUILD.

Many good players have moved to other guilds. That is their prerogative. However, leaving their alts in Flat Roos for us to help gear them is not. If your main is not in this guild, then neither should your alts be. No-one can be loyal to two masters.

Many people, especially the above mentioned alts, would rather pug raids than raid with the guild. This is completely unacceptable behaviour. The fact that raids scheduled in the calendar over the past few weeks have not been specific, does not help this.

Check the calendar. If there are raids scheduled for the week, DO NOT PUG, not even on an alt. You cannot be in two raids at once. Guild is first priority.

If you are going to be a member of a guild, put the guild's needs first and yours second. Make yourself available for guild raids whenever possible. Be prepared to switch to an alt if requested. If you don't get into a guild raid immediately, don't go off and pug it, you hinder the guild's ability to form a raid on another evening.

I am sick of sitting around waiting to form a raid while some guild members are in pug raids. Pugging when there is a guild raid on should be a gkick offence.

Sorry if this has been a bit of a rant, but disloyalty really burns me.

Getafixe

[Cancer]

I couldn't agree more!... this coming from an inactive member that still loves the Roos and even if CC's armor must have all gone to rust by now, still continues to pay the monthly WoW account fee...

[Drool]

Hard to disagree with you Geta.  Your input is welcomed and needs discussion.  The trick is always balancing our truly casual members that do contribute loyally when they get online time.

Your points regarding consideration of the guilds needs is a big one. 

Although we will try to be more specific about raid info, we will generally try to raid most nights, raiders know this and they make themselves available to do same.  (Particularly Wed to Sunday though specifics can be a little "seasonal")

Your frustrations on the night(s) in question were felt by more than just yourself and your constructive input has been well received.

(and, CC.....we know you'll be back, grease up the pauldrons....)

Cheers
Drool

[Jajabinx]

hey guys,
i also could not agree with you more about loyalty.
i speak for myself and several others in the guild who have moved mains to other guilds and left alts in Roos,
although we have alts in the guild, we keep them there to catch up with Roos members and keep in touch.  I do disagree that alts should leave the guild with their mains and believe it is unfair to people who like the Roos atmosphere and log on regularly with their alts.  I don't know who expected gear on their alts, but i have seen several people with whose alts have been invited to Roos raids who have won rolls but passed the loot to other peoples' mains.  I for one only come on Roos raids when i am specifically invited by a raid leader when a sub is needed.
If my alt is no longer welcome in Roos then let me know and i will remove him.  It would not be my fondest memory of the Roos if this were the case...

[Dancon]

I love a good rant

I got spare time, wifes out of town and servers shut down, what am I to do...
Put in the stick and stir it, lol, just kidding,

this is only my opinion and does not represent the opinions or beleifs of the guild
or other members, no endorsements have been made or sought, some of it may even be garbage

You say a player should move his alts if he moves his main... means the guild is down a player not just a toon
You complain that alts have been left in guild to gear up... Doubt it, theyre pugging cos they dont get guild runs
You complain that the alts left in the guild pug... but you dont want them if their mains not in guild
You complain that that raids do not fill... alts not welcome, or at least not to get gear
You complain that alts should always be available for guild runs... but only if really needed
You complain that you have to wait for raid spots to fill... but demand toons that dont get in have to wait hours

As far as pugging when a guild run is on, unfortunately I have been guilty of that once, but in my defence
the pugged raid had started many hours earlier and we were looking real good at a LK defeat,
I never got any whipers so guessing I wasnt needed, people may have other reasons,
it happens in a casual raiding guild.

What is a main and who decides this?
Is it the toon you very first created, your original 60,70 & 80 main? Poor dancon so neglected now.
Is it the toon with appropriate gear for the encounter? I got 4 toons ICC25 ready, I have to pick 1?
Is it the toon you enjoy the most? Right now thats my L50 warrior, but last week it was my shammy.
Is it the toon you play the most? Really depends on the phase of the moon or something.
Is it the toon thats needed on the day? Usually, but sometimes I'm just really not in the mood to heal.
Is it the toon with the most achievements? Worst thing to happen to this game IMO
Is it your best toon in the guild? Bingo? Agree? But that class is not needed?

On a basic level the guild is a tool to help a toon aquire what it needs from the game,
in return the guild uses the toon as a tool to aquire what it needs from the game.
The balance is maintained. As was the whole design of the PVE side of the game.
A toon of the guild may outgrow the need for guild or the guild may outgrow the
need for the toon, yet the player still enjoys the company of the players in the guild.
Here the alt finds his place continuing to help the guild while also continuing to get
something in return, or in my case I just get bored of the same toon.
Raid leaders are carefull to ensure the toons that are selected are appropriately geared
While I do absolutely hate the float ins that only stay briefly till they get gear and go,
I think it unfair to bag out a long time guild member for trying to get the best for what
they consider their main to be while still trying to maintain friendships and a place in the guild.


Remember the core players are what makes a guild work, not the toon they bring.

[Ahala]

I have noticed the same thing that get has. Although I do not have any problems with players outside the guild having Alts Inside. While I
 understand that it's ea h persons individual Decision on whether they stay with the roos or not, the reasons for leaving are in most cases for
 greener pastures. I do not believe that Alts are such a big problem ATM. I believe that people taking their mains out of the g is where the issue
 lies. How do we keep players loyal to the Roos? We do so by supplying the things that they are leaving us for. It all really comes down to
 progression in raids. Not progression of a small group of people inside the Roos but as a whole. Now the roos have Always been a casual raiding
 guild. But what does being a casual raiding guild mean? Does it mean that we supply novel raid experiences and down some bosses just so we can
 say "were not hardcore raiders like some other guilds". or does it mean that we raid during the week on multiple occasions, keeping the less aggro
 approach to raiding while still getting some really good progression. I believe that casual raiding is the 2ND option. Being a casual raiding guild
should not mean that we miss out on the high end raids but that we do not make our lives revolve around our raids on wow. Loyalty is the issue
here, while i understand some people will come and go, i believe that it is the guilds responsibility to offer something for its loyalty. You don't get
 loyalty from a pet without ding stuff to keep it happy, i believe it works the same way for this.
I would just like to mention now that i am not blaming anyone, i am merely making some observations and giving my own personal opinion. I
respect how hard it is to run a guild and keep it in order, i believe that our officers are doing a great job with the people that they have available. I
 know i wouldn't be able to do a better job.
Another issue is our low levels of raidsmart roo's. actively scouting the wow forums for people looking for raiding guilds could help with this. If they
 go to the trouble of actually looking at and posting on the wow forums then they are more likely to have the right raid mindset to be able to perform well. With more people like this in our raids we should be able to start getting further and further into the icc etc
The issue is how to keep guilders loyal, there could be many things to do so while still keeping the casual raiding air. Whether that's reintroducing a
 dkp system so that guilders are rewarded for attendance of raids and good behavior etc. rewarding people is a form of acknowledging their achievements, and every human being want this. Another thing that could happen is the reinforcement of arriving at raids at the correct times,
 being casual in this field i believe is only hurting us. we could bring back the old if your not at the door by raid times no raid for you. while this may not seem too casual i believe that it is necessary in order to sauced. However introducing this could hurt some people who are unable to arrive at
 the raid start times, I believe that if this is the case then we should talk over/change roo raiding times a little to attempt pleasing the majority of
 our raiders.

these are just a couple  suggestions but i believe employing these could be a step in the right direction for us a a guild. Again this is my own
personal opinion, and i respect the decisions of the officers and bow down to their years of guild leading experience.

[Miklos/Mikthezz]

Given what Happened today I feel I should Contribute, I agree with Ahala, loyalty is an issue but does that mean we have to stay behind where we may prefer to be progression wise because of the Guild or should we maybe take a Golden Opportunity when it arises?

I apologise for PuGing when I knew there was a guild raid on that night, however I decided that seeing as i've been waiting to kill Arthas since the end of the Frozen Throne, I thought that joining a LK PuG would be a good idea. Sorry to Pre and Gob for making Miklos unavailable, I made a choice knowing that I had another toon that was just as raidable that could help out in the guild run. We got him down, even though I'm glad I did I still feel bad about PuGging it. I hope that I can use my experience in aiding the Roo's In getting their own full Roo's kill in the coming weeks.

I took an opportunity, and regret the trouble it may have/has caused everyone. I did not intend to cause inconvenience, and making life harder for guilders is never my intention. 

[Oogall]

hey guys, i am afraid i am also lumped into this category.  I went to a different extreme though.  I saw the end of WotLK coming to a close and moved most of my characters to a server that was doing lk pugs and every guild had downed lk and the elite were killing him on HM.  I left an alt in the guild so when i'm up all night, i can still pop in and chat, unfortunately i didn't gear him up like i probably should have so he's not raidable atm.  Maybe in Cata i'll do it right and handle my toons a little better and maybe make a tank out of him.

[Sheal]

http://treebarkjacket.com/2010/08/24/a-little-bit-of-history-repeating-itself/