Cataclysm and the Roos

[Cancer]

I'd like to start a discussion about the upcoming expansion for WoW and what it'll mean for us.

I don't think it's too early to start planning for the way we want to move forward as the expansion will introduce some radical changes to the way we play the game, not the least of which will be Guild levelling (up to lvl 20), Guild daylies and God only knows what else.

A new think I read about was the available character development options - 6 different Path of Titans options I think.

As things are now, the Roos are a social club with no "hardcore" rading nucleus, rather a few dedicated players that have the time and inclination to at least try!

Personally, I have had rather long patches of inactivity as of late through a combination of RL issues cutting into my WoW time, least of which is old age starting to catch-up with me a little. I have however put over the years a lot of time and effort in the game and in the Roos to just be able to let it go. I still love the game and our guild, hence this discussion.

Raiding issues have been discussed a lot lately, rather heated at times... I do think that compared with many other guilds, the Roos' approach to raiding is a bit muddled and could be improved a lot, but that requires dedication not only from officers and raid leaders, but the playing masses too

My humble opinion is that the guild leaders need to start planning the opening gambit moves for the brand new world of Cataclysm, including a possible adjustment of Guild Rankings to reflect the changes brought into the game by the new guild related features of the expansion.

Done, for now... who wants to hurl the first stone? :-P                                       

[Gruscovac]

only if it's made of nerf...

seriously thought the guild leveling sounds like awesome fun, and fromt eh few rumors around there should be some good guild based rewards for it, but until be know the ins and outs of how it's goign to work, it migh be a atouch prem to step up the openning gambits beyond finding out who's planning on speed levelling to 85.

Raiding is raiding. I've said my peice on that, better, I think to let that get sorted as it will.

[Drool]

Well worth the thread.  I am sure solid info will filter through in good time.

From what I understand we should make sure we cover the required specialties with forethought to attain some of the practical guild rewards (mass summonings and such.....).  This may mean a combo of personal choice and some negotiation on guild desired versions also.

More to come as it rolls in.

Cheers
D

[Kosta]

Yay, time for my 2 cents and what not...

Ok..  so to preface..  all of this is observation, and not criticism.  All of this is i guess 'Kosta's random thoughts to help improve stuff'.

I'm also gunna assume that a lot of this has been discussed..  i dont care..  this is just my perspective

Ok..

Current Raid Stuff (WoTLK / ToC / etc).

Ok, We need to fix stuff here, we need to actively combat the idea that 'Pugging' is going to yeild better results than guild organised runs.  I know this causes a lot of tension at the moment.    Guys,  there's NO reason with our gear levels and individual abilities and stats that we should be failing on instances like ONY25 as badly as we have.  I'm not pointing fingers but this is really frustrating.   I think we need to enforce a 'Mains' only type arrangement for progression raids..   put it on the calender 'Mains Only'.  If the demand is there, i know we have the luxury of having a lot of players with geared alts, such as myself, i have a very geared DK dps and building a tank set. And we also have the luxury of having a raid thrown up 5 nights a week.  Make one of them an alts run.  Bring your main if you are not saved and bring your alts.  No reason we can't get 2 groups weekly into top teir content to allow better gear for alts and more options for 'progression raiding'.

If you are asked to bring a alt to a mains run for reasons of  group ballance.. different story.  Group ballance is still critical.  

We need to make sure we all come with consumables..  (yes i know yawn f'ing yawn but still) it shouldnt have to be said.. but i'll say it..  bring your consumables and your A game  or go do your dailies or something.

Another bone of contention has been the building of off sets.  Now, the suicide kings system is working ok for main set stuff.  Offset is a bit of a tought pill to swallow.   I've heard people say that they'd have a much better offset, or that they've seen items that would be  a huge upgrade for their offset get sharded because they are saving their position for a mainset roll.   Guys,  Offsets help a hell of a lot.  Allows more options for raiding..  And raid make up.    Offset rolls need to be changed.  i know everyone says 'rah rah rah free loot' but thats not the case.  Allowing open rolls based just on roll number for offset items.  So your suicide kinds position is not changed is one solution.  Another would be to make your roll only be against the other people who roll for offset.  So you dont move right to the bottom but you just move below the lowest person to roll for offset..   I don't know what the answer is but this needs to be addressed.  I for one would rather see that item be used for offset than sharded.  

Moving into Cataclysm

I'd love to see the formation of a core 10 man team to go in and pwn 10 man content, this helps in a couple of different ways, Once that group gets familiar it can segway into 2 dedicated 10 man groups and so on and so forth.  We also need to take more responsibility for ourselves going into new content.  Long winded explanations kills raiding,  we should all have an understanding of the fight,  the raidleader should have to only say "this is the way we're doing it.. rah rah rah,..  go"..  Quick, and easy,  it'll help a heck of a lot in the long term.  

The new guild levelling stuff looks fantastic,...  i for one can't wait to see what this yeilds etc etc.   it'll be very fun.  



 

[Gobbledoc]

cheersd kosta  just a note re the loot  we tried that but some stupididy from toons saw that they tried to stack the systme by saying im the only x here so ill offest even if its for a main then i can main set against someone else using dkp  - sucked so was put an end to

[Cancer]

As many of you know from panels at last year's BlizzCon and posts here on the forums since then, Cataclysm will bring about major changes to familiar character stats such as Intellect, Armor Penetration, Defense, and others, ultimately designed to make the effects of stats more easily understandable and make gear choices more interesting. As these changes will have a significant impact on how stats work and relate to one another, today we wanted to offer you a closer look at exactly what's in store and explain some of the rationale before Cataclysm arrives.

The most obvious question these changes raise is "Why are stats being changed, and why now?" As the game has matured, we've run into increasingly complex issues with the current stat system. Many stats are inherently confusing, and the way they interrelate can feel convoluted. Attack Power, for example, currently translates to damage, but so does Armor Penetration. Defense provides five different statistical benefits of varying utility. Mana regeneration involves understanding multiple stats and rules and often ends up being irrelevant anyway. In addition, the difference between a "good stat" for a class and a "bad stat" can be extreme. Some casters want Haste but not Crit; hunters want Armor Penetration but not Haste. There are other overarching issues, as well, such as Intellect not being very exciting for casters despite it being a core stat -- and these are just a few examples.

Our ultimate goal is make gear a more interesting (and less confusing) choice by making each stat valuable to more players. While the reasoning behind some of the following changes may be clear, we understand that you may have questions about some of the less obvious alterations, and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have here on the forums.
What You'll See on Gear
Stamina - Because of the way we will be assigning Strength, Agility, and Intellect, non-plate wearers will end up with more Stamina than before. Health pools will be much closer between plate-wearers and other classes.

Spirit - Come Cataclysm, this stat should only be found on healing gear. Non-healing casters will have other systems in place to regenerate mana, and we are designing special solutions for Elemental shaman and Balance druids who often share gear with healers (more on this below). Raid buffs that currently boost Spirit (such as Blessing of Kings) will only boost the primary stats of Stamina, Strength, Agility, and Intellect. We are also likely changing the five-second rule and other quirks of the current regen system.

Intellect - Intellect will now grant Spell Power (more on this below). Intellect will also provide less mana than it currently does.

Haste - Haste will become more attractive for melee classes by allowing them to recover resources such as energy and runes more quickly. Our intention is for Haste to let you "do stuff" more often.

Block Rating - Block is being redesigned to scale better. Blocked attacks will simply hit for 30% less damage. Block rating will improve your chance to block, though overall block chances will be lower than they are today.

Parry - Parry no longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attacks. Instead, when you parry an attack, it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all). In other words, Dodge is a chance to avoid 100% of the damage from one attack, Parry is a chance to avoid 50% of the damage from two attacks, and Block is a chance to avoid 30% of the damage from one attack.

Mastery - This is a new stat that will allow players to become better at whatever makes their chosen talent tree cool or unique. It's directly tied to talents, so what you gain from improving this stat is entirely dependent upon your class and the talent specialization you choose. We'll talk more about specific Mastery benefits in the future.

Armor - The way Armor mitigates damage is not changing, but the Armor stat has been rebalanced to mirror changes to the armor curve in Cataclysm. As a result, bonus Armor will go down slightly overall. We are also changing the mitigation difference among armor types so that plate doesn't offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth.

Resilience - This will only affect damage done by players and critical damage done by players. It will not impact crit chance, mana drains, or other such effects.

Strength, Agility, Hit Rating, Expertise, and Critical Strike Rating - These will all still appear on gear as well. Aside from situations mentioned elsewhere in this list, in general these will function similarly to how they do now, though the details -- such as how much Hit Rating you might need to effectively combat high-level creatures (more on this below) -- are likely to change.
Being Removed from Items

Attack Power - This stat will no longer be present on most items as a flat value, though it will still show up on some process. Strength and Agility, which will be present on items, will grant the appropriate amount of Attack Power (generally 2 Attack Power per point of Strength or Agility) depending upon which stat a particular class favors. Agility may provide less Crit than it currently does.

Spell Power - Spell Power is another stat that you'll no longer see present on most items. Instead, as mentioned above, Intellect will grant Spell Power. One exception is that caster weapons will still have Spell Power. This allows us to make weapons proportionately more powerful for casters in the same way they are for melee classes.

Armor Penetration - This stat will no longer be present on items. Armor Penetration will still exist in talents and abilities.

Shield Block Value - This stat will no longer be present on items, since the amount blocked is always proportional to the amount of damage done. Talents and other effects might still modify the damage-reduction percentage from 30%, however.

Going Away Completely

MP5 - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Holy paladins and Restoration shaman will be redesigned to benefit from Spirit.

Defense - Defense is being removed from the game entirely. Tanking classes should expect to become uncrittable versus creatures just by shifting into Defensive Stance, Frost Presence, Bear Form, or by using Righteous Fury.

Spell Ranks - Spell ranks will cease to exist. All spells will have one rank and will scale appropriately with level. The levels at which you can learn certain spells are being changed in order to fill in some of the gaps, and we will be introducing some new spells to learn along the way as well.

Weapon Skill - This stat will be removed from the game completely. Classes will start with all the weapon skills they need to know and will not need to improve them.

What Else You Should Know

Combat ratings - All ratings will be much harder to "cap out" at maximum gear levels. Ratings will be steeper in Cataclysm, and creatures in later tiers of content will be harder to hit or crit, similar to how level-83 mobs are harder to hit or crit than level-80 mobs.

Reforging - While these changes will go a long way to making a wider variety of stats more attractive, we understand that sometimes you simply don't want more Hit Rating on your gear or you'd rather have more Haste than more Crit. In Cataclysm, we are going to give players a way to replace stats on gear as part of the existing profession system. As a general rule of thumb, you'll be able to convert one stat to 50% of another stat. While some conversions (like converting Stamina to Strength) won't be permitted, the goal is to let you customize your gear more.

Gems - We are changing the gem colors of a few stats as a result of these adjustments. For example, Hit is likely to be blue instead of yellow. We'll have more details on this in the future.

Changes to Existing Gear

As with previous expansions, we plan to roll out these changes and modify all existing gear shortly before Cataclysm launches, though it's still too early to say exactly when. For the most part, the gear you have will still be good for you, though there will be exceptions, such as warriors using leather and mail armor.

If you are a tank (druids excepted), expect to see:

    *      No more Defense on gear. Existing Defense becomes Dodge, Parry, or Block Rating.
    *      No more Block Value on gear. Existing Block Value becomes Block Rating.
    *
      You'll have as much Stamina as you're used to, though you may notice your tanking plate has a bit less Stamina than a comparable piece of DPS plate, since we tend to take the gem budget out of your most attractive stat.
    *      Bonus Armor on gear will go down slightly.

If you are a melee DPS class, druid tank, or hunter, expect to see:

    *      A lot more Stamina. Bear-form Stamina scaling will be lowered as a result.
    *      Strength if you wear plate. Agility if you wear mail or leather.
    *      Existing Attack Power becomes Agility and Stamina.Armor Penetration becomes Haste or Crit.
    *      No Intellect on melee gear. Hunters won't need Intellect since they will no longer use mana. Shaman and Retribution paladins will get mana and spell damage in other ways.

If you are a DPS caster, expect to see:

    *      A lot more Stamina.
    *      All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
    *      No Spirit. You won't miss Spirit, though, because you won't need it for DPS or mana regen.

If you are a healer, expect to see:

    *      A lot more Stamina.
    *      All of your Spell Power converted to Intellect and Stamina.
    *      Spirit instead of MP5. You'll probably be happy with Spirit, though, because mana regen is going to matter more than it does currently. Healing paladins and shaman will benefit more from Spirit than they do currently.

If you are a Balance druid or Elemental shaman:

    *      You will still share gear with Restoration druids and shaman.
    *      Your gear will have Spirit on it. It won't have Hit on it.
    *      You will have a talent that converts Spirit to Hit. We will adjust talents accordingly so that you want about as much Spirit as, say, a warlock wants Hit.
    *      Hit on rings and other such gear will still benefit you.
    *      Raid buffs will no longer boost Spirit, so you shouldn't find yourself unexpectedly over the Hit cap because of buffs.

Many lower-level items with nonsensical combinations of stats, such as Agility and Spirit, will be changed. We're also updating quest rewards, trade skills, and loot drops to support better itemization for class builds that weren't widely available or used prior to The Burning Crusade (such as Balance druids).

We're aware this is a lot of information to take in, but this is still only a piece of the larger picture, and many of these changes rely on integration with other systems we haven't yet discussed in detail. In the weeks and months ahead, we'll continue to tell you more about these changes, along with all of the new and exciting features we have planned for Cataclysm.

[Cancer]

shamelessly copied from www.wow-professions.com

Finally! Blizzard shared some information about the upcoming profession changes in Cataclysm:

While the Cataclysm updates to many of the professions are still deep in development, we wanted to share some of the work that's been going on, as well as a high-level look at any lessons learned or changes to their underlying philosophies during the design process. Please be aware that not all professions have the same extent of information available right now, but each is receiving the same love and attention as the next.

Take heed of these teasers as you look forward to your new rank of Illustrious Grand Master!

Please enjoy!

General

    * Perks will continue to exist across all professions, and will upgraded appropriately.

Blacksmithing, Leatherworking, and Tailoring

    * Many of the green (and possibly some blue) items made during the process of leveling these professions will contain random stats. In most examples, two stats on these items will be set, and two will be random. The idea with these items is to mix up the skill leveling items so you're not just, for example, creating 10 pairs of boots that are all exactly the same.
    * Superior-quality items that require more materials than other recipes in the same skill range provide multiple skill-ups. For example, if a recipe takes three times the reagents, it will give you three skill-ups.
    * We didn't feel like we were getting much flexibility from specializations, so they have been removed for all three of these professions. The intent was to help people diversify their profession to feel different from that of other players, but through other professions we've found systems that work better to this end, such as simply making recipes available that you can earn over time.
    * To follow up the previous change, all items that required a specialization are now useable by anyone.
    * Tailoring the high-end Cataclysm items will center around a single cloth type that can be crafted through five different recipes -- each with their own material components and a long cooldown.
    * All three professions will create their starter sets of PVP gear, which will be upgraded with new recipes every season. In general, these are meant to keep pace as an entry-level PvP set below whatever the current Hero Point set is.

Alchemy

    * New elixirs will be about 75% as strong as flasks. So you can get more total stat points with two elixirs, but flasks will still be the best at giving you a single offensive or defensive stat.
    * New unique material used by nearly all high-level recipes will be created by alchemists on a one-day cooldown.
    * New Mysterious Potion created with common materials restores health and mana in a massively random range, as well as sometimes granting the benefit of another potion. The health and mana range is from 1-20,000 and is able to crit. The minimum amount restored, however, is scaled upwards by the Alchemy skill, making it a great choice for alchemists to keep for themselves.
    * All potions and elixirs now use the same basic vial type. Flasks still use a fancy vial.
    * New Alchemist Stone.

Enchanting

    * In general, material component costs for most recipes are more moderate in how much they require, while the highest-end recipes will still require large quantities. The goal of this change is to make the leveling recipes more consistent and not create unintended roadblocks in getting to the higher skill levels.
    * An enchanter vanity pet is being added.

New Cataclysm weapon enchantment preview:

    * Avalanche -- Chance to deal Nature damage on melee hit/spell hit.
    * Elemental Slayer -- As expected, this enchantment helps players deal devastating damage to elemental creatures.
    * Hurricane -- A stacking haste proc.
    * Heartsong -- Mana regeneration through increased Spirit when chain-casting spells.
    * Many more maximum-level enchantments are still in progress.

Engineering

    * Engineering is still being designed, but expect new unpredictable gadgets to use on yourself or enemies. Toys, explosives, and even a new vanity pet or two. Oh, and powerful mechanical bows and crossbows in addition to guns.
    * In general, we want Engineering to remain a tradeskill mainly focused on creating fun or useful gadgets for the engineer, but we are exploring options for items that can be sold to other players for profit.

Inscription

    * With the large number of class changes coming with Cataclysm, many existing glyphs will see new functionality.
    * Minor glyphs are woefully uneven from one class to the next right now, so they're a focus for us to clean them up and try to ensure that everyone has minor glyphs they're excited about.
    * New Darkmoon Cards will be added, with hopes they'll all be as awesome as the Greatness card.
    * We'll be adding more major glyphs as well, but in the hopes of making them as balanced as possible, we'll likely wait until after the expansion ships to add any for the new abilities in Cataclysm.
    * New and more desirable off-hand and relic recipes will be added.

Jewelcrafting

    * Some gem colors have changed! Hit is now blue. Mastery and Dodge are yellow. Intellect is now red. These simple changes have created a much more diverse matrix of gem cuts.
    * New Jewelcrafting dailies will be introduced.
    * Many cuts are being added to support the new Mastery stat.
    * Some new Cataclysm jewelry recipes have completely random properties, and can sometimes create superior and epic versions.
    * Jewelcrafters will have some fun new (and potentially lucrative) vanity items, including fist weapons, rhinestone sunglasses, monocles, and stardust (sprinkle on players for entertainment).

Herbalism, Skinning, and Mining

    * All Cataclysm herbs have the chance of containing Volatile Life.
    * There won't be a new Lotus equivalent in Cataclysm. Alchemists will use the more reliably-found Volatile Life to create the new high level flasks.

Herb Example:

    * "Heartblossom -- Named for its deep red color, this delicate flower grows close to the ground, and always in pairs. If one blossom is taken, the other flower begins to wilt immediately and dies soon after. It is considered very unlucky to disturb a Heartblossom without blessing it first."
    * Savage Leather, the basic Cataclysm leather, can be gathered from most creatures found in the expansion areas and can be converted to Heavy Savage Leather at a 6:1 rate.
    * Pristine Hide, the rare Cataclysm hide, can be found when skinning creatures in the expansion areas, or be converted from Heavy Savage Leather.
    * Obsidian is the new common mineral found when mining in Cataclysm, and can contain gems, Volatile Fire, and Volatile Shadow.
    * Elementium is the new uncommon mineral found when mining in Cataclysm, and can contain gems, Volatile Fire, Volatile Water, or Volatile Earth.
    * Pyrite is the new rare mineral found when mining in Cataclysm, and can contain gems and Volatile Fire.
    * Previous Elementium Ore and Bar used for classic quests will be renamed to Elementium Ingot and Hardened Elementium Bar.
    * We like the gathering perks as they are; not a game-changing bonus but something themed and fun. But as all tradeskills are in the design stages these are still being discussed to a degree.

Cooking

    * Cooking is still in the early stages, but we plan on continuing with daily quests, feasts, and some fun new recipes.
    * We liked the cooking dailies that had players picking up items that spawned in the world near the quest giver, so most if not all new cooking dailies will work similarly.

First Aid

    * Bandages will have a short cast time and put a heal over time effect on the target for 8 seconds. This effect is broken by damage.
    * Three new bandages! That's right: THREE!

Bandage preview:

    * "Dense Embersilk Bandage" Heals for 34,800 over 8 seconds. Requires 3 Embersilk to create.

Fishing

    * Lots of new fish and other fun items to catch! Fish are still used to make premium food.
    * New fishing dailies.

[Vestrial]

Hi Roos!

A short introduction:  Vestrial is my old main, a Mage that I played through Vanilla and Burning Crusade.  For a majority of Wrath of the Lich King I have been playing my Death Knight Acutar.  I joined the Roos in 2006 or 2007 (can't remember which) after moving servers from Terenas and raided with the guild in Molten Core.  Vestrial even earned the most important title of Guild Tailor, when such a thing was necessary.

What first attracted me to the Flat Roos was its size; I figured more people would make a guild stronger and offer me more opportunities.  And strong the guild was, but not for this reason.  What made the guild strong was great leadership that did not take itself too seriously, and a friendly and casual ethos with a focus on fun.  The Flat Roos are a fun guild to play with and World of Warcraft is only a game after all.  This and the fact that I could log on every now and then and be able to raid without having to devote too much time to studying strategies and making preparations is why I have stayed in the guild.  I am not a hardcore raider; I do not have the time or the drive to be more devoted to World of Warcraft.

Like everyone I am excited about the possibilities that the Cataclysm expansion will bring to the game and the opportunities that the Guild Advancement concept has to offer.  However I am a little concerned that Guild Advancement (or the lack of it) and talk about creating elite groups of raiders has the possibility of spoiling the Roos ethos.  I am afraid that the "Yeah, we'll give you a go and have fun doing so" inclusive attitude will be replaced with a "Sorry your gear is not good enough or learn to play" elitist attitude.

I am not an officer and so not privy to the goals the guild leadership have now, or for the upcoming expansion.  My feeling is that the guild is best described as a "casual raiding" guild and as such we will struggle with end game content and progress slower than more "hard core" raiding guilds.  Unless the leadership have intentions to change to a more "hard core" raiding guild we will most likely stay as a "casual raiding" guild.

Some very reasonable posts have been made promoting more focus on progression raiding teams to work in parallel to more casual teams.  In my opinion this progression/casual team model is not sustainable with the current player base that the Roos have to draw from.  There are only so many players capable or willing to lead raids, and many thanks to you all for doing so!  On most nights raid leaders would need and want to be in the progression team, most likely resulting in no raid or a less successful raid for the casual team.  This may create tensions and divisions in the guild and reduce the fun that we have.

I suggest that players take a step back and assess their own raiding goals.  If you are disappointed that you do not have the best gear, cannot have a dedicated raid spot or have not seen all of the end game content, then it may be that the Flat Roos is not the place for you.

(Damn IE8 and its scroll bars!)

[Precursor]

Thanks Vest.

I feel that some of the points you raise above have a lot to do with our longevity. There are very few guilds that still survive from vanilla wow, let alone server opening week like is.

The concept of dedicated "elite" teams is both a strength and AA weakness of guilds who consider themselves "profession". Whilst they can often achieve short term success, they are reliant on the real lives and individual motivations of this small group to remain aligned. Furthermore it needs their resilience of spirit to continue once harder encounters require "multiple wipe nights". Hence you see many guilds rise quickly and fall just as quickly. Even those guilds that have remained successful after a break away from the Roos, such as Insurrection (nee Redback) and Clan Drop Bears, have undergone significant management and structure changes to survive.

[Precursor]

Bloody iPhone scrolling!!

To continue, the strength of the Roos is that because we develop player and give them a go we have a strong base of replacements when real life or motivation wanes in a regular raider.

We do, such as this coming Saturday, have dedicated progression nights however I feel even on these nights our focused but relaxed attitude serves us well.

[Vestrial]

I may have been a little inflammatory in my last post, I am not suggesting that everyone should leave the guild for greener pastures, I am just asking people to be realistic and not jeopardise the fun that we have in the name of progress.

With the new Guild Advancement feature our hard work (no! It's a game damit!... hard fun) will help to advance the guild and open up new and better perks that belong to the guild not individual characters.  I am unsure of the mechanics, or if indeed it will be implemented, but I believe there will be a process by which you earn guild reputation, like you do with factions, in order to access the beneficial perks the guild has achieved.  Given these points you will make your bed in a guild and have to sleep in it.  The decision to change guilds will have a lot more consequences than it currently does.  This has the potential to create a lot more cohesion within the guild, competition between guilds, and competition to attract and keep good and productive players.  It also has the potential to create tensions within the guild if members start to feel that we are not progressing as well as we should.

[Gruscovac]

It's interesting to note that in some of the latest data for cata released (I made a rhyme, how sublime, I'm a poet and didn't know it, etc, et. al.) looks like a lot of the guild leveling and perks (and guild vendor fanciness) will be linked to guild achievements. One of the fancy ones is getting every legendary available in game currently. However, you have to get them all AFTER cata launches... getting them before doesn't count...

Looks like there's a reason to go back and get a lot of the old content smashed.